ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post here about the Z remake "Zed Online" by DaMarkov

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KOHAGEN
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by KOHAGEN » 2019-12-27, 03:08

DaMarkov wrote:
2019-12-27, 01:47
I don't see how it greatly expands the tactics. The enemy just has to destroy his own building before repairing it. It's a small annoyance to the enemy.
It is difficult for me to describe an example of a multiplayer situation, but such situations happen. And when playing with bots, there are a lot of such situations.
For example, at level 19, where a lot of repair equipment. It is much easier to win if you disable some buildings (+:++).
Moreover, to disable their own buildings =) In order to give the enemy part of its territory on which it will not be able to produce anything :)
This is a fail-safe tactic on some levels, always leading to a quick victory! :cheers:
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by KOHAGEN » 2020-01-01, 18:34

Found more bugs.

1. Level 17, there is always a black square around the captured missile launcher (SDL2 640x480 fullscreen). There are no problems on OpenGL.

Image

2. Destroyed buildings for some reason over time are restored themselves, without the help of repair equipment :\
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by APC » 2020-01-07, 18:10

Hallo KOHAGEN
KOHAGEN wrote:
2020-01-01, 18:34
2. Destroyed buildings for some reason over time are restored themselves, without the help of repair equipment :\
I don't know how about Z_DOS, but in ZOD_Engine (base code for ZED Online) this happends often and by purpose. I think it is some setting of every map (to allow autorepair of destroyed factories and bridges in e.g. every 10 minutes or NOT)

KOHAGEN wrote:
2019-12-24, 23:59
7. If you shoot a tank at a production building and do not finish it, you transfer the target to another object, then it still continues to shoot at this building.
This bug annoys me, also in Zod Engine. The unit continues to fire into factory despite I give him another command.

KOHAGEN wrote:
2019-12-24, 23:59
9. Before the plant explodes, it does not warn by crashing on the+: ++ timer, as in the DOS version. (I used to shoot buildings down to+: ++ so they wouldn't recover, but they wouldn't explode either, so the repair crew wouldn't repair them).
In Z_DOS I have never seen the AI to destroy damaged factory to repair it later. It is exploit of inadequate AI.
In ZOD Engine there is none possibility to finish damaged factory by friendly fire - for consequential repairment.
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by KOHAGEN » 2020-01-08, 06:08

Hallo APC :)
APC wrote:
2020-01-07, 18:10
I don't know how about Z_DOS, but in ZOD_Engine (base code for ZED Online) this happends often and by purpose. I think it is some setting of every map (to allow autorepair of destroyed factories and bridges in e.g. every 10 minutes or NOT)

In Z_DOS, buildings and bridges were not restored themselves! This changes the whole game very much!
It is not clear why this was done in ZOD_Engine ? And what's the use of repair cars, then ? :\
And on some levels, such as level 18-the game turns into some nonsense >_<

P. S: Now reached in the game to the levels of Expansion (Level 21, 22, 23) and there with AI ZOD_Engine absolutely impossible to play - this is some kind of madness, imbalance and inappropriate behavior on the issued orders -_-
You give commands forward-tanks go back and in General it is not clear where. Medium and Light tank AI always wins over Heavy tank user. Etc...
Last edited by KOHAGEN on 2020-01-30, 08:08, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by APC » 2020-01-08, 17:44

I played ZOD Engine a lot during last year. I consider it better balanced and playable as Z_DOS.

The Autorepair issue makes some sense in prolonged multiplayer battles where it can change stalemate. In original SP maps I agree it should be forbidden similar as it was in Z_DOS.
I played SP levels 15-30 few days ago and it seems well playable for me.
I play on 1920x1080 resolution, I see huge part of map so I can react fast. In contraty to Z_DOS where I have seen tiny part of battlefield.

You are right sometimes the Heavy makes poor performance against Medium or light. But in MP battle it overranges both of it so by micromanagement it can destroy a lot of lights and mediums in row. Also it is the first unit capable to kill rocket artillery (buffed in ZOD Engine) without huge casualties. Killing it using MRL is better choice, but often not actual.
In ZED Online the Heavy seems to me really underpowered.
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by KOHAGEN » 2020-01-09, 05:37

I always play at the minimum resolution. Large resolutions are cheating and not classic!
I believe that the server should have an option that restricts the resolutions of users!
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by APC » 2020-01-09, 12:13

Playing on 1920x1080 is huge advantage compared to playing on 640x480.
In finished version of Zed Online and MP battles played often - you can ask DaMarkov to implement there setting for MP lobby where players will be restricted into some resolution.
Or you can make agreement and "houserule" with your opponent.

I played Z battles in 1920 x 1080 and I will never switch to the 640x480. Now the game is much more about strategy and not struggle with interface and minimap.

There were plans to make remake of Z using high resolution sprites. There the game on fullHD resolution could be more similar to the classic 640x480 gameplay (just in much more polished form).
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by SteelGhost » 2020-01-17, 15:47

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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by bigsapling » 2020-02-03, 02:14

HI! This is an amazing thing I've found. Thanks for making this, Z is one of my all time favourite games and it's great to find all these community / individual projects that bring back all the great games from years gone by. Supreme Commander, C&C, Myth2... and now Z as well. DaMarkov: I hope you continue working and improving this thing for a long time.

But anyway, I also had some feedback to give. The UI scales very nicely when resolution is set to 800*600 and fullscreened but the controls on the side and the minimap do not scale with the units and the map. Could this be added so the unit portrait, minimap and all the buttons on the sides - basically the interface - would also scale up? It's looks a bit silly and the minimap is impossible to read when it's so small.

https://imgur.com/dSgmbwH <- here's a screenshot of the game running on my computer.
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by DaMarkov » 2020-02-07, 16:57

bigsapling wrote:
2020-02-03, 02:14
But anyway, I also had some feedback to give. The UI scales very nicely when resolution is set to 800*600 and fullscreened but the controls on the side and the minimap do not scale with the units and the map. Could this be added so the unit portrait, minimap and all the buttons on the sides - basically the interface - would also scale up? It's looks a bit silly and the minimap is impossible to read when it's so small.

https://imgur.com/dSgmbwH <- here's a screenshot of the game running on my computer.
Agreed, it looks ridiculous. Could you set the resolution to like 1024x768, widescreen mode and fullscreen.
The game should then render in something like 1024x768 (plus some width because of widescreen) and the upscale that to 1080p.

By the way, as some people have already noticed version 0.2.3 is online. Here is now the changelog: https://sourceforge.net/p/zedonline/wiki/changelog/
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by KOHAGEN » 2020-02-08, 08:03

DaMarkov wrote:
2019-12-27, 01:47
That might be the reason. Since the program is trying to download multiple files at once. It might run into some kind of timeout with that connection speed.
I changed my 1 Megabit tariff to a 30 Megabit high-speed tariff and used the new version 0.2.3.
Nothing has changed, the problem with loading is still present.
At the first download, only 28 translation files were uploaded.
On the second download, 83 translation files were downloaded.
And only on the third download, all 95 files were downloaded.
DaMarkov wrote:
2019-12-26, 18:16
Tested in Z DOS: There the middle mouse button de-selects all units. I have added this to classic controls in the next version (0.2.3). Thanks a lot!
For some reason, in version 0.2.3, the third mouse button cancels, but does not returns the route as in ZDOS :-\
It is very inconvenient to quickly maneuver manually in battle with tanks without this function. And with re-selection of the route - it’s very difficult. Anyway, it’s very difficult to play without it -_-
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by KOHAGEN » 2020-04-11, 09:07

DaMarkov, thank you for the new version 0.2.4 ^_^ :cheers:
Can you do it in the next version like in ZDOS ? So that the third button not only cancels the selected route, but also restores the route back.
And it is desirable that the route lines also respond to this :)
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by XStrategy » 2020-04-20, 00:34

Thank you DaMarkov..

You are the MAN! I'm an old time z fan , even I tried to do a 3d game based on Zcode universe back in 2007 and met Bitmap brothers, it was called X strategy back then but the project did not finish.

Anyways, great job on keeping this legend alive!

I will ask more questions later, just couple of quick questions

1. do you have some donation code where we can thank you and donate for your project?

2. are there any difficulty settings? I only saw speed settings. Maybe i am rusty but the game feels really hard now as it became much faster... robots killing robots with grenades? now we are talking! that was fun.

3. is there smooth / antialiasing now ? it seems very pixelated to what i rememebr in old z engine mods and z95..

4. is there a way to put default to produce psycos and light tank istead of jeep/grants? seems with the game being so fast now the primary units become completely useless and changing production takes too much time.

5. do you plan to add some new-generation ideas like "set rally point for production factories" etc ?

cheers!
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by XStrategy » 2020-04-20, 11:43

few more things

6. important issue - robots sometimes are stuck together (the leader and minions) often move as one. it's not just bad because it's hard to understand how many robots we have but also they are killed with 1 shot by tanks /guns which is bad.

7. for main menu - i suggest to improve the look so that it will attract new players better. you can use our fan art if you want, for examplehttp://game-era.com/images/zod_render_Ss.jpgmore here viewtopic.php?f=9&t=736&sid=31a837de2a8 ... 24d2a19a1f

8. messy pathfinding lines when multiple units are selected. especially if several units are selected the pathfinding lines looks really weird.

9. many times i hear same voice repeated (like territory taken keeps repeating in loop)

10. bots surrender? i dont like the idea. let us kill the fort, it's a part of the pleasure to finish the bots.

11. important issue - driver-kill seems off balance.. in early levels it's next to impossible to kill the tank/jeep driver making tanks too dominant.. gatlings became completely useless and psycos too they have no damage and cant kill the tank driver.. this needs to be changed to z-dos settings on driver kill. the only purpose of weak units is their ability to snipe out tank driver (even in medium/heavy tank). without this ability they became completely pointless so the game turns into - who has a tank wins it all, the tank goes like through the batter :)        example today.. i was winning the game, then one single light tank came , killed psycos, killed grants with the grenades, killed jeep, killed gatling (completely uselesss), then killed the gun on the fort and took out the factory... this never happens in Z :)

feature suggestion
11. to show in text on top of factories what they are producing now. (on mouse over, same like you show robot names on mouse over)

12. veterans. like in Z dos make the veteran units manuver better (and shot more accurately)
additionally - auto heal for veteran units after certain time. (i saw that in other games)

13. game difficulty - like others suggested, make a setting of the difficulty . easy solution make multiplier of the player production time. easy = we get units produced faster.. Do not change the stats of units.

14/ someone asked before in the topic - in older zed i could right click and then get again the previous selected units in hand and give them different order, now i cant.

15. even on top resolution the graphics looks very pixelated (especially we can see it on texts). - even if i "zoom out".  on older zed engine it was really smooth graphics.example of what I mean by pixelation https://i.postimg.cc/c1FrgFLM/pixelation.pngI dont have screenshot of z engine by freak night by i remember it was much smoother and text were very readable.

16. when clicked "cancel manufacture" to change production it switches back to the lowest unit, it should not.. it should keep same until i click arrows.

17. when target aquired by the tank (say i want tank to attack something), in old Z the turret would lock on target and not rotate around. this will give small advantage of first shot, especially in bigger tanks.here in Z online the tarret does not lock.

18. tanks/vehicles get stuck near river borders (corners)

19. robots shoot over factories/mountains.

20. feature suggestion - in higher levels make low-level units (grants/psyco) produced WITH grenades set in hand. this will at least make them little more useful, else nothing needed just pyro and the game becomes too binary. It's just medium tank + pyro endless production and all other units seem useless with such balance. Howitzer completely useless , it cant even kill medium tank consistently but is very expensive..

In multiplayer
1. cooperative mode crashes
2. when my ally passes my fort the music and sound plays annoying "your fort is under attack".
3. the "you are toasted", "you are crap" women voice is too repetative, almost every 10 second.. should be like every minute like in original z else it's annoying.

hope this helps ! keep up great work!
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Re: ZED Online - a fork of the Zod Engine

Post by XStrategy » 2020-04-20, 17:42

Z-Online Balance improvements suggestions

Main problems - the game lacks variety in unit purposes. All you need to do is buying Tough+Light Tank in early game (up to 3 star factories) or Medium Tank+Pyro in end game (up to 5 star factories). Usage of all other units is pointless and puts you in unnecessary disadvantage.

The goal - to bring the balance closer to original Z but at the same time compensate for much faster speed of this game compared to old Z dos.

Early game (up to 3 star factories)
Problem - Light tank is dominant because the "pilot-kill" frequency is too low, rendering other units pointless. The tank gets no damage of them anyways.
Solutions:
Grant,Psycho, Gatling, Jeep and especially Sniper - > significant increase in "pilot-kill" frequency to stop the tanks and other jeeps.
No other problems detected. Tough robot is well balanced.
Dont change stats of the tanks, all good (except pilot kill)

---
End Game (up to 5 star all unlocked)
Problems1
Grants,Psyco, Sniper and Lazer are pointless robots. Pyro are "all around good for everything" solution.
Solution:
Grants and Psyco are built with grenades in hands.
Sniper - pilot kill increase (discussed earlier)
Pyro - more damage vs robots and less damage vs tanks, making them weaker vs against moving targets. Idea is burning grounds like in original z and damage more with time if unit stays there on fire.
Lazer - less damage vs robots and much more damage+ sniper kill vs tank making them useful vs vehicles and also same built time as Pyro. now they are too expensive and pointless, as pyro does all better.
---
Problem2: Light tank is only good "all around" vehicle. Other vehicles are pointless in the end game.
Solutions:
Jeep - increase pilot-kill (discussed)
Medium tank - dont change anything but because of the pilot kill it will be less "universal solution" and will need robot support.
Heavy tank - way too expensive and slow but provides same or less value as medium. Solution - reduce built time, slight reduce accuracy, slight reduce of the range. Dont change damage. Idea is to make him a heavy hitter vs tanks but poor solution vs robots (because of pilot kill)
MobileMissle - way too expensive and too slow, no value to built. Solution - reduce built time a lot, reduce accuracy, reduce the damage. Making it a perfect far hitting SPLASH damage dealer. Perfect vs robots and non-moving targets like Guns. Less use vs tanks. But zero chance of pilot kill makes it safer choice and more interesting.

Guns
Gatling - higher pilot kill (discussed)
Howitzer - more accuracy (to compensate for its high cost)
else all good.
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